Grateful Dead Live at The Centrum on 1983-10-21
FOB Sony TCD5M with 2 Beyer Dynamic 160's recorded by Ficca and Brennan encoded by Jake Markezin
Subject: 1983 scarlet / fires
Subject: I gotta get down...
Subject: Great Show
Subject: Frosty's Picks for the Hearing Impaired
7.6.84, 10.15.84, 6.19.91,
7.18.89, 6.21.84, 9.6.85,
10.12.84, 10.12.83, 11.1.85,
8.24.85, 7.31.82, 6.25.92,
8.5.89, 10.31.83, 6.26.92,
10.8.84, 12.5.81, 8.30.85,
11.5.85, 6.26.84, 8.3.82,
6.8.80, 4.3.84, 8.10.82,
3.14.81, 12.26.80, 4.15.83,
4.18.82, 10.31.91, 9.2.85,
10.14.83, 4.2.90, 4.30.90,
Please let me know if you have any show suggestions that compare to these in quality of sound. Send suggestions to firstname.lastname@example.org.
Subject: Wormtown rocks
Subject: Another perspective
I saw my first show on New Year's 1980 (far too dosed, I might add) and saw 59 more of them - most in 81, 82, 83 - before my last show in 1988. I saw the Greeks in 81 and 82, the Hult shows in Eugene in 84, six New Year's shows, the Aladdin Hotel in Vegas (81 and 83), Warfield, Golden Hall, and, well, too many to list here. I was a hardcore tape collector (1200+ tapes at last count - about 20 years ago!) with an always busy "tape exchange" and direct connections on the east and west coast. I knew every riff, every solo, every mistake, every breakout, every anything during those years.
Anyway my point is that at each of these shows somebody felt they saw "it", and they most surely did. Almost every tape I made for somebody had "it" somewhere on it. The live Dead experience is entirely personal and based on infinite stimuli. There is a certain element of futility attached to the whole excercise, although it does provide a fantastic perspective on the whole affair.
For what it's worth, I like this Scarlet-Fire and remember when the tapes arrived liking it from the get go. Peak? End all be all? Best ever? Mechanical? Yes! No! It simply is whatever you hear and whatever you feel, end of story!
Personally I LOVE the Scarlet-Fire from 12-26-81...I like the ambience of the audience tapes, the energy that night (first night of an excellent run IMO), but not sure there are ten people out there who would agree. There are better according to all criteria, but that one I LIKE. So be it!
Subject: It's an OK, mechanical Scarlet/Fire
I'd take most decent 76 or 77 Scarlet/Fires over this. I'd even prefer an 80, say Fox 11-30 just as an example.
I think late 70s sound was usually much bigger than mid 80s. 77 is about as far from a garage band as you can get--they are improvisational together as a unit in ways mechanically precise non-garage bands could never be. By 82 they got into more of a shuffle and while sometimes mechanically more precise, I never went to a show with the hope of hearing something mechanically precise. Much of the 80s sound like a band trying to put together repeatable decent formula performances, with some train wrecks and a few very nice shows here and there.
The rest of this show has a few nice parts, but does start to fall apart seriously after Scarlet/Fire
Subject: Very Well Known Scarlet/Fire
Of course I was kidding as far as "no other S/F will do". I love them all. But I was just trying to put into perspective the perfection; (musically, vocally, and energetically) of this particular version. And truthfully, at least with the many DH I know going back to 71', they agree that this is without question, even for the Dead at their best, way beyond what they would consider possible for the boys. Just listen to it. And better yet, if you are a musician, transpose it. It's almost obscene how perfect it is. Just unusually superb. The rest of the show, however, the band returns to themselves again (and from then on, only to show a very tiny portion of that same magic, in very brief moments.... perhaps in the Spring of 87' and the Summer of 89'). And yes, I truly believe that they reached the summit on this night. The perfect balance was there. The 70's had the high energy and element of surprise, but the band still had that "garage band" kind of sound, and the musicianship of the band was far more simplistic and "loose". In the 80's, their musicianship and compositional abilities were in full bloom and their sound was clean, refined and "big". Like comparing a 5 piece concerto to a full blown symphony. During the 83' fall tour (the S/F at the Centrum in particular), the band had the best of both worlds. The energy, and surprise factor improvisationally (the 70's), and that big refined symphonic sound and serious leap in musicianship (the 80's). Go backward or forward from that point, and you have one or the other, but not both. But don't get me wrong, I love and enjoy ALL the shows. So, enough of my rambling.
Subject: Yes, A Remarkable Scarlet Fire BUT.....
made by BigMallardDuck:
"On that night during that pair of songs, the Grateful Dead reached their highest peak... Truly, it would all be gradually downhill from that night and those two songs onward. Trust me, I witnessed it first hand.
In all honesty, once you listen to this Scarlet/Fire a few times, you will get very spoiled, and no other version will do. This (at least among those who have spanned the decades) is pretty much common knowledge and without dispute. "
So, if I understand correctly, precisely at
that moment the Dead peaked, and it was ALL
downhill from there? No other version will do???
And this is common knowledge and WITHOUT DISPUTE?
Bizarre. As for common knowledge, I've been
a Deadhead since 1973, talked with thousands of
other Deadheads and I've never heard anyone echo
this opinion. Nor would any Deadhead I've ever
met say their opinion of a show is "without
We can "trust you" because you witnessed it first
hand? Uh, what about the other 10,000 at this show, and the untold thousands that have listened
to it since?
Phew? Scary stuff. Must be something wrong with
me, 'cos I listened to this show then went back to
an old University of Alabama show from the '70s and, oddly, was still able to enjoy it.
By your logic anyone listening to this show would
never be able to listen to any other Dead ever again. The whole scene would collapse and the world would consist of musical zombies listening to infinite iterations of this Scarlet/Fire!
Or maybe you were just kiddin'.....
Subject: Can you say Wheaties?
Subject: Fond Memory
Was at WPI then, and a bunch of us camped out for tickets for 2-3 days, taking turns.
First set beats the hell out of the second set...
Subject: Right On Double Dose
Double Dose did you hit Popular Creek summer 1983? one time 2-night shot. Pretty cool outdoor small ampitheater near my house. Iam sure that was nuts as well.
Subject: Good start, sloppy finish
No diss intended for anyone who attended the show, but after a great first set and a solid Scarlet/Fire, this show falls apart pretty badly. The climax of Truckin' is a disaster and the end of Wharf Rat just peters out into a jarring INAM segue. Bobby's voice is pretty well shot by the end of the show. All in all, I have to agree with Crazycatpeekin that there are better shows from this year to DL...
Subject: For the guy that says this is not as good as 10/15
Subject: not as good as 10 15 83
the same tapers caught both shows, so i have no complaints about the quality of the aud... it's tight.
without being a total kill-joy and pointing out all the stuff that doesn't work for me (this is just my opinion), suffice it to say the whole second set suffers from moments of really lackadaisical, sluggish play which take away from the whole.
the scarlet>fire is the highlight, with a driving scarlet jam and despite jerry stumbling into the opening of fire, it's a pretty rocking version.
the uncle john's>playin' has moments, but uncle john's is loose and rushed... it feels unfocused. the playin' is quick, and the jam after is fine... basic noodling.
the truckin' intro out of space and the truckin' climax are both weak, imho. the intro almost turns into a bouncy GDTRFB-type jam, but they more or less just stop that in its tracks and start truckin' with no lead-in... they never get a groove going. they try to make up for this with vocal gymnastics, but it's clear they're just having a messy night.
and they totally blow the truckin' climax... bobby tries to pull them together for the big build, but it's just not happening. they are all over the place.
the wharf rat has some real soul...
i need a miracle is great, it fits the energy of the night... sort of bluesy and careless... like the cc ryder in set 1
don't bother to DL -- there are so many better shows out there... or DL set 1 -- it's tight. but set 2 is commonplace.
get 10 15 83 -- it's an absolutuely stunning night, in every way a far superior show.
3 for the aud
2.5 for the playing.
Subject: a fiery precocious gem!
Whay hasn't been mentioned is that the Keys on this show are some sort of wonderful. There is some seriously smoking fills here, Brent is a legend and is completely underrated in IMHO.
Anyway... brass tacks the playing is spot on here, there are some mike troubles here and there with Bobby dropping out briefly, but generally the mix is tight as Billy's Hi-Hat and Phil lines are as strong and as sweet as they ever got. The sounds quality of this show is crystal and magnificent. It must be said that there is a certain swagger to the first set, a assured arrogance in the bands playing, perhaps some bolivian friend shook out a generous dose of talc before they took to the stage, who knows... but the 'fcuk you' attitude of CC Rider is downright mean... and they 'messy' guitar solo with overblown reverb in the middle is awesome! Its like your in a ghetto blues bar - and whats more i believe that it was a Bobby solo! (correct me if i'm wrong) thats right folks a Bobby solo that doesn't sounds like choked ice cream van music but actually kicks ass!
The show gets better and better with each listen... this is some savagely tight playing here!
Finally, i'm working on a vulcan mind meld type of thing - why? - because i want to go to this show and extracting old deadheads memories may be the best way. Imagine that you can downloading some ones dead show experiences from the net... of course there'd be the normal information -
for example: George Bradley, FOB, 3 beers, 100mg California Sunshine, 3 joints, some drop outs in the middle of dark star, cuts out in middle of space when GB went to toilet, encore /parking lot and a girl called Cindy.
anyway i digress... download this show or else the world will be destroyed in two days... you've been warned!
Subject: often overlooked tunes
Subject: Get this one
This show is worth it for just the 30-minute scarlet/Fire alone, but a nice Wharf Rat, a rocking Miracle, a Music opener, among others make it a must have.
Subject: Worcester 10/21/83
Sticking to the music, I am of the opinion that a few shows in 83 rank as the strongest for that decade, even with Garcia's escalating "persian" habit. Also, the scene had not yet grown too big so crowd were still peaceful, mostly utilizing psychedelics for transportational purposes.
Highlights- I remember a great thundering sound to start it off as I began my own personal blast off. (Phil's lead in to Music Never Stopped) I already owned Blues for Allah so I knew this one. Thinking to myself, everyone around me is boogying as hard as they can? I guess this is what I'm supposed to do. That's pretty much what I did for the rest of the night. A very tight first set (most songs are 10-11 minutes long) and a long and spacey scarlet / fire. The Uncle John's -> Playing also stands out.
One point- someone should upload the Silberman recording of 10/21. He was one of the 1st to use a digital recorder on tour and had seats in the 4th row! His recording is absolutely the cleanest modern aud that I have heard so far. 4 stars because there is a better recording.
Subject: This one of the best shows of the 80's
Uploaded by Jonathan Aizen on